upkeep modified airframes

[denonline]

Hi Neil. I have made several inputs regarding Gibsons Dams a/c. I believe that it was AJ-G.
My second skipper S/Ldr. Johnny Meagher became an instructor pilot attached to 106 squadron Metheringham. for his 6 months rest period after his first tour with 61 squadron. AJ-G was parked there as tour expired in it's dambuster configuration. Johnny used it regularly for pilot training, familiarisation flights & as a general hack for shuttling the CO.& others around & picking up off base crews etc. I enquired on this site as to it's final fate & one of the entries confirmed that it had subsequently been scrapped, what a pity it would have been literally "worth it's weight in gold " now.
Dennis

[richw_82]

ED932 was scrapped after suffering an accident (I seem to recall reading about a multiple bird strike) during the disposal of the surplus upkeep mines. There was also mention that the control column, throttle pedestal and instrument panel were removed for storage as someone realised their historical value, but went missing...

Ric

[NEIL ARMSTRONG]

Hi Rich,
I mentioned the control column and quadrant in a previous post,but know one seems to recollect it.I cant remember where I read it but I feel sure it was displayed in the officers mess at Scampton.If I am wrong this is serious it means I have imagined the whole thing and my wife is correct "I am infact losing the plot". NEIL

[Skintman1]

Hi Neil,

No I remember reading that somewhere as well,

Dom

[NEIL ARMSTRONG]

Hi Dom,
thanks for that,i just wish I could remember so I could investigate further. NEIL

[Skintman1]

Hi Niel,

I know i've got it somewhere, i'll try and find it

Dom

[gate1]

In looking for something else I came across this thread, and thought I'd add a few notes as ive been researching these aircraft for a number of years now, so excuse the lateness of my post.

To start with, there were actually 23 Lancaster's converted, the missing one from the initial list being ED765, which was the first converted, serving as a test aircraft before joining 617 Squadron in early July 1943 where it was coded AJ-M, replacing the original AJ - M (ED925) which had been lost on the dams raid. ED765 only lasted a month before it was lost in a training accident. Although some were damaged on the dams raid, none were reconverted at the time to standard configuration. The '/G' suffix was (as mentioned) to signify a guard was needed as special equipment was aboard, but this usually referred to trials aircraft. The G was removed on 617 as the aircraft and base were routinely quarded.

Of the others, several were converted to allow 617 Squadron to use them in training in late 1943. It seems 617 converted them a bit more than they were given permission for and they were almost fully converted, and brought on line as standard aircraft, complete with new KC coding (the 'Dambuster' configured aircraft kept the AJ coding). Contrary to what has been written, this included bomb doors and mid upper turrets. I have proof of the latter, having excavated ED825 (which had become KC - E before being lost in December 1943). The team found part of the mid-upper turret.

The problem lay in the fact that another dams operation was on the cards right up until the end of the war, and as such the aircraft were required at short notice. At the same time, they were becoming hard to maintain and were rarely flown. So some were retained on 617 Squadron as standard aircraft for practise flights, others flown on operations. In the spring of 1944, many of the survivors were flown over to 106 squadron, who used them for transport, training and general hack aircraft. others were used at 54 Base for smoke, altitude and other trials and tests.

There is mention of Gibson's AJ -G at Metheringham. This was in fact Maltby's ED906, which had been converted to standard and given the codes KC - J, before reconversion back to Dambuster configuration with the code AJ - G. Gibson's original ED932 was reconverted to standard in late 1943 and given the code KC - V, before being used in drogue and other trials at 54 Base. As the end of the war approached, all the survivors were reconverted back to dams configuration before being placed in storage, as an order was received they were to be on 14 days notice for another dams raid.

At the end of the war, as part of 'Operation Wastage' (the disposal of surplus bombs) around fifty Upkeep mines were found to survive, so three aircraft were taken out of storage and made airworthy for the task (Operation Guzzle), which used crews from 9, 61, 101 and 617 Squadron's. As has been noted these were ED906, 909 and 932. I have photographs of all three at this time (in fact, the original photograph posted showing ED906 is owned by me). After 'Guzzle' was complete, the three were scrapped at Scampton, but not before all the special equipment was removed, as it was still considered secret.

So the story of the 23 is a complex one involving conversion and reconversion, later operations, trials, transport, and a lot of wrangling up high over their use and future.

[cintrepd]

I for one, would like to see any or all photos of these aircraft, including the much talked about control column and pedestal from ED932, AJ-G which is mentioned quite often, but photos of, have yet to surface anywhere, which of course would also prove the existance thereof.

Certainly, having these photos on Larry's site, would be a great addition to a great website.

cintrepd

[Skintman1]

Hi cintrepd

ED825 taken at Boscome Down during trails for upkeep.



Dom

[david layne]

Perhaps someone can clarify this for me.

Why did these aircraft have the upper turret removed?

Having had the upper turret removed why not 6 crew members?

I'm sure there is a simple and logical reason for my two queries, it's something that occured to me when reading threads on this site about the Dambusters, or perhaps in my ignorance I am confused!